Discussion: Stroke E6, Wreath E6, Angleman E6???

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nickbullock	Stroke E6, Wreath E6, Angleman E6??? Mar 11 2007, 2:44 PM EDT Really?... Post reply Do you find this valuable? Keyword tags: None
nickbullock	1. RE: Stroke E6, Wreath E6, Angleman E6??? Mar 11 2007, 2:47 PM EDT oh, ok angleman still E7 here but E6 in graded list...Christ have i been stroking my ego all this time...? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
drevil	2. RE: Stroke E6, Wreath E6, Angleman E6??? Mar 12 2007, 12:51 AM EDT Well if the Brocolli Garden is E6 then Wreath is definitely not E7 Post reply Do you find this valuable?
nickbullock	3. RE: Stroke E6, Wreath E6, Angleman E6??? Mar 15 2007, 5:32 PM EDT "Well if the Brocolli Garden is E6 then Wreath is definitely not E7" hmm, well i know the brocholi garden has recieved a whole lot more on-sights than wreath?....and i know which i would rather fall off of!...ok, maybe the crux of wreath is safe with bigish lob potential but, muff those moves up high and you're decking out from a long way...i dont think the same can be said for the brocholi garden. Just out of interest...who has onsighted Wreath...and without a lob? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
drevil	4. RE: Stroke E6, Wreath E6, Angleman E6??? Mar 18 2007, 12:18 AM EDT I did and so has Steve Mayers I think (?). I thought it was pretty safe. The Brocolli Garden felt much more committing to me. Maybe Wreath is E7 though. I've put a voting widget in the graded list so that people who have done it can vote on the grade. I do get the feeling that a general recalibration of the grades at Gogarth is happening and there is a move to tougher new school grades, especially on the red walls. There might also be a factor of the routes becoming easier with more traffic due to loose stuff coming off and the placements improving and becoming more obvious. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
nickbullock	5. RE: Stroke E6, Wreath E6, Angleman E6??? Mar 18 2007, 6:19 AM EDT "I did and so has Steve Mayers I think (?). I thought it was pretty safe. The Brocolli Garden felt much more committing to me. Maybe Wreath is E7 though. I've put a voting widget in the graded list so that people who have done it can vote on the grade. I do get the feeling that a general recalibration of the grades at Gogarth is happening and there is a move to tougher new school grades, especially on the red walls. There might also be a factor of the routes becoming easier with more traffic due to loose stuff coming off and the placements improving and becoming more obvious." hey good effort..yeh, i'm pretty sure Steve would have done it on-sight, as thats his style, me, i'm a leightweight...but Wreath was the first one of the E7's, or is it E6's i did on N.S...i suppose i can only relate this climb with others...and as always grading is subjective..Anyway, thats only 2 of you..i'm pretty sure caff and bobbins would have done it clean and O/S..i know Neil took a lob which is quite telling as he has cleanly led the bells, authentic desire,AND the broccoli garden....maybe just getting into the zone on NS counts for a lot, but hey isnt grading meant for an on-sight, and everything else is not quite as good...so in the zone or out of it...i know ive onsighted loads of E6's, but didnt O/S Wreath..hmm, but i didnt try as it was given E7 and it was only my third and i wasnt that brave...so maybe i should have...dont suppose any of it matters anyway... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
drevil	6. RE: Stroke E6, Wreath E6, Angleman E6??? Mar 19 2007, 3:18 AM EDT Will be interested to know what Caff, Pete, Neil and others think of the North Stack grades. The Bells will probably be concensus E7, and it's also got the historical aspect to the grade in the way that Positron and Right Wall are historic E5s. The Bells is probably harder than The Clown and Wreath so they could be E6 or E7 and The Hollow Man could be hard E7 or E8. Don't think it has had a ground up ascent yet. It's a moot point whether Stroke and The AngleMan exist anymore since the belay has gone. Flower of Evil I've not done but the grade of this will probably depend on the grade of Wreath. If Wreath is E6 then it is E6. If Wreath is E7 then it could be E6 or E7. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
pete_robins	7. RE: Stroke E6, Wreath E6, Angleman E6??? Mar 19 2007, 9:17 AM EDT Only hard ones i've done on this wall are: Art Groupie, The Clown, The Cad, The Long Run. Not really my thing this wall. The Clown felt hard E6, I felt safe on all the tricky bits. Its a much bigger lead than Art Groupie or The Cad though. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
NeilDickson	8. RE: Stroke E6, Wreath E6, Angleman E6??? Mar 19 2007, 10:11 AM EDT "Will be interested to know what Caff, Pete, Neil and others think of the North Stack grades. The Bells will probably be concensus E7, and it's also got the historical aspect to the grade in the way that Positron and Right Wall are historic E5s. The Bells is probably harder than The Clown and Wreath so they could be E6 or E7 and The Hollow Man could be hard E7 or E8. Don't think it has had a ground up ascent yet. It's a moot point whether Stroke and The AngleMan exist anymore since the belay has gone. Flower of Evil I've not done but the grade of this will probably depend on the grade of Wreath. If Wreath is E6 then it is E6. If Wreath is E7 then it could be E6 or E7." When I tried wreath for the first time it was the first time I'd climed after a six month layoff due to a broken ankle and I was pretty unfit. Having said that I only had to jump off as I went straight up the arete and climbed into a totally dead end instead of rocking round on to the wall. The old guide book description was the most confusing thing ever so lets make the new one a bit clearer. I think given the crux is totally safe and the top is only about 5b/5C it can't really be E7 - much easier than the bells. I would say the bells in solid E7 which I climbed OS without gear in the flake, I think everyone else who has done it in this style I have spoken to has suggested they found it quite hard in the grade . Of the routes I've done I would say: Solid E7: The Bells E6: Wreath Soft E6: Art groupie, The Cad Solid E5: The long run Post reply Do you find this valuable?
nickbullock	9. RE: Stroke E6, Wreath E6, Angleman E6??? Mar 19 2007, 1:04 PM EDT "When I tried wreath for the first time it was the first time I'd climed after a six month layoff due to a broken ankle and I was pretty unfit. Having said that I only had to jump off as I went straight up the arete and climbed into a totally dead end instead of rocking round on to the wall. The old guide book description was the most confusing thing ever so lets make the new one a bit clearer. I think given the crux is totally safe and the top is only about 5b/5C it can't really be E7 - much easier than the bells. I would say the bells in solid E7 which I climbed OS without gear in the flake, I think everyone else who has done it in this style I have spoken to has suggested they found it quite hard in the grade . Of the routes I've done I would say: Solid E7: The Bells E6: Wreath Soft E6: Art groupie, The Cad Solid E5: The long run" RIGHT! the top head wall only 5b/c!!...hmm....I D O N ' T T H i N K S O neil..................come on out there...Tavener, McAleese, and Turner...dont be shy...lets have an opinion... I know you think the clown is E6 pete, but to my knowled the first overhang got you sweating a touch and wasnt it vickers who fell from it...steve mayers reckond he watched JR take lob after lob...what gear did you find apart from some real shitty rp to protect the official crux moves?...E7, without a doubt...Bells solid E7 and a masterpiece, The hollow man E7/8...bloody awesome, the overhang of the clown, into the crux of the bells and then the tricky runout headwall, no going off route for good pro on that one. Flower i admitt is probably E6 and a bit of a non route since that other E7 wreath!! was put up...Stroke is E7, as is Demonds of bosche.(cant spell sorry)...What else...oh yes, Birth Trauma...who's done that then.... i ground upped that.after ripping holds and plummeting twice...Solid (thats the grade, not the route!!)and scary E6...the cad E6..Art groupie..E6...Long run Solid E5...long run direct E66b...Not fade away E5/5c... Ok got that out of my system....bring it on boys, i'm enjoying this... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
drevil	10. RE: Stroke E6, Wreath E6, Angleman E6??? Mar 19 2007, 5:29 PM EDT Only 4 votes cast on the Wreath voting widget yet and it's 50% E6 vs 50% E7. I suspect that the concensus grade on this route will set the benchmark for the rest of the wall. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
TomBriggs	11. RE: Stroke E6, Wreath E6, Angleman E6??? Apr 2 2007, 11:24 AM EDT I on-sighted Wreath and though I haven't done any of the other E7s on N Stack, I've done quite a few E6s at Gogarth (some of which will be E5 in the new guide though).. and I do think Wreath is harder than, say, Barbarossa (I did it when the peg was a tied off stump). And it's scarier and harder than most Welsh E6s generally. So it's definitely soft E7, but probably deserves the grade. Remember these are on-sight grades and Neil Dickson's comment about route finding sums it up. Even with a better guidebook description, that move onto the arete will still feel committing and a bit blind. It might feel like E6 once you've taken the lob, or, god forbid, you've top-roped it. But it felt more E7 to me. It's shed loads harder than The Cad also! Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
drevil	12. RE: Stroke E6, Wreath E6, Angleman E6??? Apr 2 2007, 5:16 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 2 2007, 5:16 PM EDT Here are the votes; Free Stonehenge 3 votes 100% E6 The Brocolli Garden 8 votes 75% E6 Wreath 6 votes 50/50 E6/7 Post reply Do you find this valuable?
pete_robins	13. RE: Stroke E6, Wreath E6, Angleman E6??? Apr 3 2007, 5:04 AM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 3 2007, 5:04 AM EDT Whats the deal with (sparingly) using grade-slashes then (Here and in the new guide)? Wreath E6/7 6b. Everyone happy. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
twid	14. RE: Stroke E6, Wreath E6, Angleman E6??? Jun 9 2008, 4:45 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 9 2008, 4:45 PM EDT Stroke has always been thought as easy for the grade . Yes E6. Wreaths gear has improved massively over the years esp at the top nr the flake when it used to be a rp2 now its a solid rock one. . Angle man not sure as i havent done it. Only one on the wall. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
twid	15. RE: Stroke E6, Wreath E6, Angleman E6??? Jun 9 2008, 4:47 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 9 2008, 4:47 PM EDT stroke EG. Wreath on sight E6/7 many folk seem to check the gear out. Angle man E7 Post reply Do you find this valuable?
twid	16. broccli garden super calabrese Jun 9 2008, 4:52 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 9 2008, 4:52 PM EDT Not long after the first ascent wraith was very popular I can remember 7 ascents one summer while Broccli garden hadnt had a third ascent. I made the second ascent with Dave green and thought it E7. Talking to folk now there does sound like alot more gear. I climbed over the lower roof and ran it out for 40/50 without any runners. Sounds like you get reasonable kit kit now. Arbitary really as its a great route. I thought Supewr calabresse first pitch was the serious one and certainly deserves the e7 grade. not sure if folk have repeated the hard pitch since? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
NeilDickson	17. RE: broccli garden super calabrese Sep 11 2008, 9:01 AM EDT Hi Twid, Caff and I never did the first pitch of the Calabrese and yes it looked very tough and I wouldn't be surprised if it was E7 - top effort on repeating it. Out of interest, did you clean it before you did it at all as it looks to be in an abominable state now with bird shit and grass and I have never ever seen remotely dry! The variation that we climbed instead was excellent and a fair bit harder than the upper pitches but maybe I will get round to doing the original first pitch at some point if I'm ever down there when it looks dry! Post reply Do you find this valuable?